Kira Roessler is a punk-rocker and always has been, since the times of the legendary L.A. venue MASQUE, when “punk-rock” was more of a synonym to “non-conformism” than a formed genre. Kira used to experience it all as an active part of the community. Roessler is 60 now. Her solo debut is coming out this week via Kitten Robot Records. 

Boston Hassle sits down with Kira Roessler discussing the mentality of being a bass player and Kira’s musical language, the influence of Pro-Tools on songwriting, the dynamics of Black Flag, and the formation of the musical scene in L.A.

HASSLE:

Kill Rock Stars just released the first vinyl edition of “Justamente Tres.” Quite an unusual record in the sense of songwriting. Some of the songs are purely instrumental. Some, like “Angels’ Face Is The Devil’s Daughter” and “Little Doll” feature your singing. Even though these are covers, what was your writing with Dos like, and what drove you to sing?

KIRA:

Well, I always thought of myself as a bass player who sings and not a singer. But when Mike and I started with Dos, there was this idea – it felt that the only instrument we could add. What you mentioned are cover songs of songs we loved. But I also write lyrics. When I do, I tend to be very, very personal ( laughter ). I tend to be almost highly emotional and dramatic with my songwriting. I might take a little idea and just add as much drama to the idea as I can in order to play with the idea. I just finished my new solo record, which is coming out shortly and those songs, especially for me, are very emotional. Quite sad at times. It’s just the way I express myself, the way I express emotions, the way I straggle with…

HASSLE:

When you got to play with Mike [Watt], at the beginning with Minutemen and Black Flag collaborating later with Dos, how did you find your strategy collaborating with another bass player?

KIRA:

As you mentioned, our first exploration was a collaboration between the Minutemen and Black Flag. I think, during that recording… for me anyway, I can only speak on my only idea. It became clear that two bases were A LOT OF INSTRUMENTS. Mike is a very expressive bass player. So, he takes up a lot of space, and it felt like a power struggle to come up with space. When he and I started playing, the first thing we did was–I had made these story tapes for my nephews, who were very young. And I’d read a bedtime story, and then, I’d record a bass-line and then another bass-line. In my idea, it was very warm-sounding and relaxing for my nephews ( laughs ).

Some of the very first times Mike and I played, we played those songs. I don’t think we really planned to have a band. He had just lost D. Boon, and he was very sad and… I wasn’t sure he’d keep playing. My idea was just to get him to play. Just in a room, just to start feeling the music again. We’d play either those songs, or we’d jam. At first, it was just that. I didn’t have an idea to start the band. But once we thought about “What if we do a band ?” we were pretty sure that there would be no room for anybody else ( laughs ). Because we always felt: “Hey, we love the bass!” To us, it’s a very expressive and a very powerful instrument. And then also, between us, there was enough struggle for the space, so it didn’t seem there was a room for anybody else ( laughs ).

HASSLE:

You’re putting out your first solo record. You’ve been working on it for quite a while. What is the story behind your first solo album?

KIRA:

I have been working on my own music for many, many years. And most of the time, I played in my room. I had been writing songs and expressing myself and standing those songs… I call it “a virtual band.” I sent it to my guitar player, who lives in Ohio. And we’d play something. I have a friend who plays drums, who lives here, but we never play in the same room. I sent him things, and he sent me drum tracks. My brother also lives here. Here’s a producer at Kitten Robot Studio. I’d take my songs. We’d play our music. And to me, it’s just very much for a joy of making music. I never really thought or cared about putting it out for everybody else, really!

Then his studio, Kitten Robot, started a record label. He just said to me one day, “I think you should put out some of this stuff!” We had a lot of songs of mine. He said, “You should put out a record!” They wanted to put out a record on Kitten Robot label. He just asked me at the right time. It’s funny. I’m 60 years old now. It feels kind of fun to put out a solo record at 60 ( laughs ). I had a set of songs that I felt were almost complete. A good set of songs [that] seemed like a record to me.

So, they hit me at the right moment. And I agreed to do the record. The hard part has really been a visual part, including putting together the layout for a CD…because I’m very much a sound artist. Not a visual artist! And now we’re going to make a video. At the same time, it’s the same thing. You have to have ideas; you have to have visual ideas.

It hadn’t been a part of how I thought. But it has been fun because I learned to sort of treat it the same way as writing songs. You grab to a little idea, and you sort of trying to blow that little idea into something bigger. I’m really happy with how the CD layout came out. It’s beautiful, and I’m hoping the video will be the same. I have some rough ideas. And I’m working with the person who does this for a living. I’m excited to try to see what we can do, but I’m a little nervous – it’s a little different to me ( laughs ).

HASSLE:

When it came to your work – was it primarily your songwriting on this record or freedom choosing the right people to work with?

KIRA:

No, it’s completely my songs! My lyrics! I sing on every song! It’s very much a songwriting from my heart. But I have some very beautiful additions from the guitar-player, the drummer. My brother also performs. And a woman named Petra Haden who’s an amazing singer and violinist – on a couple of things. But it’s very much my music they just helped me to make more beautiful.

HASSLE:

While reading about the very first projects you were in–The Visitors, The Monsters, Twisted Roots–I was thinking, “Why didn’t it work out with them?” At the same time, as you noticed, not all the people can work hard. Do you think that work ethic attitude was the quality that united you with Greg, Henry, and Bill?

KIRA:

Being in a band, I think of it as a marriage of many people. And of course, that means it can be very difficult, just like marriage can be very difficult. Personalities of every person get involved. You can’t take them out! But also, you’re absolutely correct: you have to all believe in the same idea. And have the same work ethic. What was attractive to me about Black Flag, before I even played with them, was that work ethic, that drive to go on tour, to play, to record a lot–all of it. They were my favorite band when I joined them. It was magic.

It felt like magic when they would even consider playing with me. I was honored. And because they were my favorite band, I also thought of them as much more… this isn’t exactly the right word, but “professional.” They treated it like a vacation, as opposed to some people who treat their bands like, “That’s just for fun!” And that’s ok. There’s nothing wrong with them. But these guys were more about, “Let’s beat as many people over the head as we can!” And that appealed to my sensibility.

“Avoiding” lyrics-video is premiered exclusively at Boston Hassle 

HASSLE:

I wanted to ask you about “Slip It In,” but I think “Family Man” became the first recording of Black Flag with you being their bass player at that point. Is that correct?

KIRA:

We actually recorded the basic tracks, the drums, and the bass, at the same time…

HASSLE:

Was it the usual practice for you?

KIRA:

We usually would record for two days. We’d book the studio for two days. And we’d record as much as we could. And we’d record two albums, usually, of the basic tracks, for those albums. We’d just play until you’d play anymore. And you’d sleep for a while, and then you’d play again ’cause you have only 48 hours, and you have to get all this recording done. So, it’s very physically difficult. But they were recorded together.

HASSLE: Once you described yourself as non-conformist…

KIRA: ALWAYS ( laughter )!

HASSLE: What did you feel getting into a punk-rock environment that formed in MASQUE ?  Where nothing was that important then that attitude you and these people had at that place. At that point.

KIRA: Well, my brother is a little older than I am. And he was the one who first attracted with punk-rock. We had some friends in the band called The Germs who were playing live [there]. That was the first show I went to see. And I will admit that I was just tagging along with my brother. I was playing myself. I had started playing the bass. And I played piano since I was a little kid. So I always was attracted with music. I guess, in the big picture, the punk-rock-thing peels because it was against the mainstream music that was happening. Disco was the big music at that time. And big arena-rock – Black Sabbath or AC\DC. I like those! But that was very remote. And this was very personal and close up. Very small. And that actually felt like you could have an impact.

You were a bigger part of a small-thing. I never felt like I could be in a big band playing stadium. That didn’t feel like me. But in a little club you feel like I could do this too! I could be a part of this! I started hanging around…I would go to the clubs early. Just to be around the other people playing. So I could meet other musicians and maybe join a band. Eventually, I did that! My brother and I were in the band at first and then, I met other people who played. For me, it just felt more accessible as an opportunity to play and to play on stage. And it seemed like everything would be possible.

HASSLE:

When we speak about British punk-rock, there still was some archetype “Punk of 77” or “Punk of 82.” While in L.A., you had artists like The Screamers who had this avant-garde element still being a punk-type of band. The Go-Go’s, who eventually turned out to be a pop band, still having this element of punk-rock. Or Christian Death–definitely, different to the punk-rock archetype. Do you think these were different sides of one musical revolution or something that became remarkable for the L.A. scene? 

KIRA:

I’ve never really thought of it that way. The idea was you could start your own band. You could sound the way you wanted to sound. It was personal enough and small enough that people were experimenting as you suggested. I didn’t think of it so much as L.A. The New York Dolls, The Cramps, and The Dead Boys. You had all these… Ramones was the straight kind of rock band if you’d ask me. A little straightforward. But I think, in New York, people were messing around with the different stuff.

In Washington D.C., we had Bad Brains and Minor Threat, so I think the barrier to get into the music was smaller. You could start your band. You could write your songs. Take the Minutemen: they decided, “We could start our band, we could write very short and very fast songs.” Meat Puppets in Phoenix. I think expressing your personality, it felt a little more accessible.

I can express my anger which was a lot of punk-rock. But people also started expressing other things and other feelings. And so, I just felt there weren’t any rules. I always think it was funny now that people think punk-rock is that very specific thing. Because the whole idea was there’s no rules! Forget all these rules that everybody has about what the music should sound like! You can do whatever you want. Dolls is very punk-rock. It’s not like anything else. That was the idea: do your thing.

HASSLE:

Many Black Flag songs have a very specific avant-garde coloring, like the B-side of “Family Man.” At the same time, those like “Loose Nut” or “The Bars” are more straight-ahead punk-rock songs. How different was the process with these two models of songs? 

KIRA:

Well, Greg was the songwriter in many of the songs. At one time, he was writing two styles of songs: he was writing songs for Henry to be able to sing, and he was writing songs he thought of as instrumentals. Or almost like… kind of like a jam. I’d play the riff, over and over and over [again]. And he gets to jam. And my job is to hold it down, so there’s a structure underneath, so he could have fun ( laughter ).

In a way, he had started developing two sets of material. And the great thing in a way about the record “In My Head” is that Henry would sit, after we’d play Henry’s songs, we’d be playing these instrumental songs. Henry sat and wrote lyrics to a set of those songs. In a way, it’s my favorite! Because it’s Henry really expressing himself to Greg’s expressions. It became a different thing because it wasn’t Greg or Chuck writing lyrics for Henry. But Henry actually gets into listening to the music and reacting to the music. Coming up with his own thing. So, it would have been an instrumental record!

HASSLE:

At the same time, there were a lot of instrumental work like “The Process of Weeding Out.” Having the lack of Henry in the process, did you feel less connection or contiguity to what you’ve been doing? 

KIRA:

No, we saw it as an addition to. [With] most of the cases, we were playing for two hours live. So, it was almost just an interlude at times. We’d start with instrumental, and then Henry would come up, and then maybe during the set, we’d play the instrumental… Henry would go behind the drums and start banging on the drums or something.

It felt like just extra–not instead of. The idea behind it was never to separate. We played very few gigs that were instrumental gigs at home in L.A. But for the most part, it was a big long set with a couple of instrumentals. The same way we’d play 3 or 4 old songs from “Damage” always. But we’d always play new material. It all adding on to create this big structure. And it was all part of the whole.

HASSLE:

It was said that you were constantly touring and at moments getting back to L.A. to record a new record. What usually pushed the process of writing and recording as a result?

KIRA:

When I joined the band, there was a lawsuit preventing Black Flag from making records. There was a record company named Unicorn Records that put out “Damage.” They had the contract that said they’d make a second record. They said “No!” because Unicorn didn’t pay them for the first record. They weren’t getting paid and refused. So, Unicorn sued Black Flag and said, “You can’t record under that name!” There was a long period of time when I joined, and they couldn’t put out a record. So, Greg had written a lot of material. He’d written a bunch of those songs, had done the instrumentals, and they’d been playing, and they hadn’t been able to put [them] out. So “My War” and “Slip It In” and these records… there were a lot of records put out in 1984 because that was the time when the court finally lifted the bar against them using the name.

Once that was lifted, all of these records could come out. Many of the songs had already been worked on. Chuck wrote “My War” years before. They’d been playing that song, but there was this bar against being able to put it out. As far as the songwriting that was happening by Greg, [he’d write] by himself, and then he’d bring in the song for us to work with. For the most part, we were outside of the songwriting until he’d bring us something. Towards the later times, there was a little bit more collaboration which was fun. It was nice.

Things opened up a little bit. And Henry would be able to write the lyrics for those songs, and I brought a couple of actually old songs I had from another band that Henry wrote the new lyrics to. It was more of a collaboration. But 90% of the writing was happening outside of our practice place. And when we’d get together and jam, it was usually still to a riff that Greg had written as a starting point. Then we’d just play it. I’d play it over and over and over again. And he’d jam.

HASSLE: 

What language do you have for such moments? When dealing with instrumental music, it always gets to a point when the word “feel” comes up. But working with someone, you still express your ideas in a specific way – verbally, physically. 

KIRA:

To be honest, during Black Flag, that was not a creative time for me. That was a time for me to do what they needed me to do. In a way, I had to keep my creativity to the side. Again, if you’d think of it a little bit like marriage, people do fall into certain roles to make the relationship work. And my role in that band was not to be particularly creative but rather to be a good team member. A good solid person that would hold down the riff or just play very steady and hard to everybody else felt supported.

When I collaborate with, let’s say, Mike Watt, it’s a totally different thing! We’re more battling basses. And with many of my old songs, I sometimes wrote my part and Mike’s part. They were both my bass lines. And I had written the battle by myself. At the time, I’d write one, and he’d add one. So, it was a much more back-and-forth thing. But I was also in a band with my brother when he wrote all the songs. And again, my role was more as a team member. Although I wrote some interesting bass lines in Twisted Roots, etc., he gave me some roles to work with. And I look back on it as a more creative time than some others.

I think, every time you collaborate with someone, you have to sort of find what’s best for that group, that moment in there, what works. And I think the best players do that. I was so sad to hear that Dusty Hill died because what more perfect player for that band. Or Paul McCartney plays what’s exactly right in the Beatles. You have to sort of mold yourself. You can’t necessarily bring “This is my style!” If you’re Mike Watt, you can ( laughs )! But when he played with The Stooges, he didn’t play his style. He’d play the way that worked. So even he has his progress, playing with different people and starting to modify, to be a better team member.

It’s very important not to impose your own ideas in a situation when they don’t work. You have to listen and feel what’s gonna work here, how do I do this best. The best player would adapt to what’s needed. But it’s the fun part about a band like Dos or doing my solo-thing when I have to actually express myself and put it all out for me. That’s a different kind of collaboration for sure. But you have to be very adaptable when you’re collaborating with others. That’s a part of it.

HASSLE:

Being an exceptional collaborator, how does it feel when you’re writing your solo material having the freedom to do whatever you want?

KIRA:

I think it’s different with the lyrics and the music. With lyrics, like I said, it’s almost like a tiny little set of words. A tiny little idea happens. And then I just start thinking about it as about a very dramatic thing. I add all sorts of feelings around it, blowing it all up into a big, dramatic thing. That’s kind of the way it works to me when it’s about the lyrics. But when it’s music, it’s very much hands-on the bass. Some might disagree, but I feel like I go blank. And sometimes I just noodle on my bass, and I like something.

Maybe I’d record that and listen back. And if I still like it, maybe I’d try to find the way for another part that goes after that. It’s very much trial and error to see what I like. And when I have the first bass-line, I’ll sit down and say, “What might I do to that?” and record it. And I’ve been doing it forever! I used to have a cassette board track. When we were writing the [very] first Dos songs, we both had a little cassette track[recorder] and would give them back and forth to each other to record stuff. That is the good tool for being able to hear your ideas and be critical of them.

It’s difficult to be critical while you’re playing. You almost have to listen back to it and say, “Yeah, I like that!” or I should record them a little faster. Or I’m gonna change that and play that part and mix it with that part. So it’s very much an intuitive process to come up with the music part, whereas the words are… sometimes I’d just spew a bunch of words on a page, and then I’ll get my pen out and start editing into something that has more of a shape to it. So it can be a bit more musical. Does this make sense?

HASSLE: 

Totally. But if back in the days, you were recording your demos with cassettes. These days you do a lot of sound-editing work for films and T.V., which is different than back in the days, at least with Pro-Tools. How much has the production part affected your sensibility of being a musician? 

KIRA:

Honestly, I can’t remember which came first ( laughs ). I started editing with the early days of my work during the very early days of Pro-Tools. And in T.V. and music business, it was a very early Pro-Tools era. I don’t actually think I owned Pro-Tools to record my bass on until I had started to work on Pro-Tools and recorded things there. And even though I started specializing in a dialogue area and sound-editing, ProTools became a very useful tool I now use for both my work and my music.

HASSLE: 

Among musicians who don’t mainly earn for life with their music, there are some who can play every day. Others go years without touching their instrument. What kind of person you are? 

KIRA:

I play in my room almost every day. My bass is right there. And oftentimes, I’d play first in the morning. It’s when I feel the most creative and awake, and before I start work, early in the morning, after I’d walk my dogs, I’ll come back, and I’ll play. And if I don’t play for a few days, I’d actually feel bad! I’ve been playing bass longer than I’ve been a woman. I was 14 when I started playing.

So for me, it’s a physical connection I have to have. I don’t have to have something done. I can just noodle on my bass. A lot of times, it’s about keeping my hands strong and flexible. So when I do go and do something more complicated, these hands are in a way me expressing myself. So there’s a part of it that’s almost exercising. I have to exercise my hands. That helps. It keeps me thinking, “Well, I haven’t played in a couple of days…” Even if I haven’t played for a couple of hours and don’t put my brain to it, I just put my hands, and that’s all out! So depending on a day, I might just mess it with my hands, or I might pull up… I might have a set of probably 20 or 30 songs I’m working on at any time that are in different stages of completion.

So I look at my list, pick one and try to push it further. And push it more to its completion. Or I’d just mess around. Or I’d have a new idea. So, I’m very much someone who has to play bass. I don’t have to play in front of people. I don’t have to have people like my music! I don’t know if anyone would like my new record ( laughs )! But that’s ok! It’s weird music. And I understand that. It’s not for everybody. When they think of Kira of Black Flag, they won’t think this music fits with that music. It’s sad and expressive in a different way. But I’ll always play whether you hear me or not ( laughs ).

Kira Roessler’s solo debut is coming out this week via Kitten Robot Records.

Photo credits: Jack Grisham, Rachel Roessler